Go M.A.D.
Go M.A.D. means "Go make a difference". Together we discover how we can make the greatest possible impact through Jesus for the people in your world. Whether in conversations, on social media, at home or at work, you can be that M.A.D. person starting today! We'd love to connect with you on social media as well!Connect with us on social media and / or email:Twitter - @GoMADPodcastFacebook - facebook.com/gomadshowInstagram - @gomadshowYouTube - @gomadshowEmail - gomadshow@hutchcraft.comOr find out more about us on our website: gomadpodcast.com
Go M.A.D.
Unsung Hero: A Conversation with Producer Andrew Erwin
Welcome back to the show. Today’s episode is a doozy. If you’ve enjoyed movies such as “I Can Only Imagine,” “American Underdog,” “Jesus Revolution," and now “Unsung Hero,” you can thank our guest today, Andrew Erwin. Andrew, along with his brother Jon have been telling stories of redemption through film for the past decade. Doug and Brad chat with Andrew about the recently released, “Unsung Hero,” and how this filmmaker uses stories to capture hearts. You don’t want to miss this one. Also, check out The Storytellers Podcast with Andrew Erwin.
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Welcome back to the show everyone. Today's episode is a doozy. If you've enjoyed movies such as I Can Only Imagine, american Underdog, jesus Revolution and now Unsung Hero, you can thank our guest today, andrew Irwin. Andrew, along with his brother, john, have been telling stories of redemption through film for the past decade. His brother, john, have been telling stories of redemption through film for the past decade. Doug and Brad chat with Andrew about the recently released Unsung Hero and how this filmmaker uses stories to capture hearts. You don't want to miss this one. Also, make sure you check out the Storytellers podcast with Andrew Irwin Link in the description. All right, let's go mad.
Speaker 2:Let's go mad. Hey, welcome to Go Mad with Doug and Brad. Yep, we are really excited to be here today because we have got one of our best guests ever.
Speaker 2:I can't believe you said, yeah, we'll come on, we'll come on, we'll have a conversation with you. We are so psyched If you have noticed that movies of faith okay have become awesome. Our guest today, along with his brother John, they're a big reason for that. Andrew Irwin has produced some of your favorite faith films. I can only imagine Mom's Day Out Jesus Revolution, which really spoke to my heart in a big way.
Speaker 2:And that one Song Hero. I mean, I am so psyched to see that tomorrow actually right, bright and early, um, and by the way, andrew, did I read this right? You know I I assume the internet never lies to me. Looking at imbd, I've directed some pretty amazing music videos back in the days, including back in the day.
Speaker 4:The back of the day. Yeah, yeah, we were when we did. I see you guys got your striper shirts, on which I'm really thrilled about.
Speaker 3:We do, we do.
Speaker 4:We'll talk about the little moment at the beginning of this film because it's awesome. And I dare you to figure out who's playing Michael Sweet in the movie, in the striper scene Liam Neeson, liam Neeson, liam Neeson, right? No? Well, yeah, liam Neeson was always our first choice. But yeah, when we did music videos back in the day, you know, we did Christian videos, we did rock and then we did country, but we kind of got good at blowing things up. So if we couldn't figure out how to end a music video, we'd blow something up.
Speaker 3:And the last video we did for Skillet, I think the treatment we wrote, for it was uh, the band comes out, things blow up, it starts to rain.
Speaker 4:More things blow up, it stops raining everything blows up the end, and that that music video has 500 million views on youtube. So, oh my, that's kind of what we did. That's what we did for years until um, and we did the video for monster and hero, uh, so we had a lot of fun and uh, that kind of led to awesome.
Speaker 2:That is, yeah, incredible. I didn't know, did you do that monster? It's awesome. That is such an incredible. I didn't know you did that one man. That's awesome.
Speaker 4:It was a lot of fun. We did that in like this abandoned hospital in Birmingham Alabama. It was the creepiest set we've ever been on, it was epic. Definitely.
Speaker 3:And then you fast forward to now where you have got a brand new movie, Uns movie, Unsung Hero, working with For King and Country, and I was privileged to be able to, and just honored to be able to see an advanced screening of this and I got to tell you this thing wrecked me pretty much from beginning to end.
Speaker 3:I mean our listeners know that Doug and I are in ministry and we've got families and I'm sitting there and some of the struggles they go through and everything else. It is so well done from beginning to end. It had me and I have to say I mean sure the reason it had me at the beginning may have been that striper all of a sudden was on the screen. My kids are sitting there looking at me, a striper appears on the screen and they're just like dad's head is going to explode. He really I just had no idea the connection there and how that was part of david's story and the small bone family. So I mean, and you did a great job with all the musical artists in there, a great job with the casting, I mean spot on and so many different ways from carmen amy grant, all these different uh artists that you guys had someone playing them.
Speaker 4:Really great job with that yeah, the carmen, one will trip you out because like that's not ai, that's an actor and he looks just like him, like he's a dead ringer. But um, you know, with the striper moment, yeah, uh, it's funny with them because michael sweet came to the premiere the other night in nashville, which was pretty wild to see him walking around.
Speaker 4:I fan fanboyed out a little bit but um, but you know we did a documentary a while back called the jesus music and um, in that doc, uh, when I interviewed joel and the guys, uh, from freaking country, I just asked who inspired them and I always thought it was something like cold play or something like that. They're like like no, it was striper. They said. When we were kids our dad was promoting them in australia and did all the concert promotion for striper. And he said when I watched them, the theatricality, how they wore the, the you know, the killer bees kind of jumpsuits and like the way that they had the wardrobe and all that type stuff, it was so cinematic and theatrical he's like it inspired us to kind of start our own thing. So if you want to understand the music of for king and country, you've got to understand Striper.
Speaker 2:So there's a weird kind of multiverse connection there.
Speaker 4:That is fantastic, so it was cool. It was important for them to include them.
Speaker 2:Man, that is fascinating. I didn't know that detail there. So, andrew, I've got to ask. I think you're about six years younger than me, maybe, which means you were probably when they were in their heyday. Were you a fan at that point?
Speaker 4:Yeah, when they were in their heyday I was probably about maybe 12, 13 years old when they were at their pinnacle, and maybe 10 to 13. And I remember, yeah, I used to sneak to listen to their music because my parents were a little bit too conservative with their music but I would always sneak a listen to Striper. It it was like to hell with the devil and all that like. And in fact, when joel they're doing an accompanying album that's come out, coming out with a movie of different songs and they did a new release version of to hell with the devil and I did not think, I didn't think there's any way on paper that was going to work, and I was like lecrae, king country and striper.
Speaker 4:but I listened to it in the studio and I was like it's the song I did not know I needed. It was like it was so good so yeah, that's a good way to put that if you've never seen.
Speaker 2:I just gotta mention this. I don't know if you've ever seen um no, we can move on from striper here, but I don't if you've never seen um striper playing live at the dove awards on youtube at night in 1986. It's awesome. You have to check it out it was a different dove awards back then, and I mean the audience looks it was like a southern gospel show back then.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it was like a southern gospel show. And these guys come out like in their suits and they're chucking Bibles. It's like what is going on.
Speaker 2:It's awesome. The audience looked like aliens that landed in Nashville. It's so good, it's awesome, it's so good.
Speaker 3:It is Well, and yeah, in case our listeners think we only have you on to talk about Striper, I do want to hear this. So, unsung Hero, could you tell us a little bit? I want to encourage right off the bat for anyone listening to this, whether it's downloading it, watching a clip on social media, whatever it is go see this movie, bring your family, bring your friends, pastors, bring your churches. I mean it just really is a very well done movie, very heartfelt. It is not an overt, you know, beating you over the head with faith, but the faith is throughout it. It is very clear, the faith of this family and how they talk about it, and it's real life. It's real life. So go see this. But can you tell us just a little bit of how did this come about? How did you get connected with uh, for king country for this movie specifically?
Speaker 4:yeah, for king country. Like joel smallbone, um, uh, one of the two brothers, uh, is one of my best friends, so we've been friends for probably about 12 years. I got introduced to him, uh, when they were opening for another christian band and their dad, david, grabbed me by the collar and brings me into their their dressing dressing room. He's like you've got to meet my boys and he's like you got to be a part of our family devotions. I was like, okay, and so, uh, he knew that I was a filmmaker. And he pushes me in the locker room and I go in and there's like 12 Australians in there I don't even know who's who. And then he makes me sit through to I think he actually made me read the devotion out of the book. Uh, and whatever David Smallbone says, you do, you do. I mean he scares me a little still. And uh, and then he's like here's my son, joel. He wants to be an actor one day. It's like put a pin in that you got to go see them perform. Takes me back out to the front row, sits me down on the seat and then the guys came out and they performed. I've never seen anything like it. It was just. I was like, wow, this is a whole nother level. These guys are really fantastic.
Speaker 4:And Joel and I got to be fast friends and so throughout the years we've just kind of he's spoken into my movies, I've given him some thoughts on his music and when it got to this he was like guys. I want to tell my family's story of what my parents went through coming to the United States with six kids. One on the way lost everything and my dad basically had a nervous breakdown. And in the midst of that my mom held the family together until my dad realized his family's not in the way. They are the way.
Speaker 4:And I was like, okay, I think I'm interested. He's like I want to play my dad and I want to direct it and I want to shoot it in three months. And I was like, okay, now, you're crazy. But he was crazy enough to pull it off and we all rallied around him and when we got to the final day of filming, we all realized we made a really good movie and I leaned over to him. I said, joel, you don't no longer have to say that you're a musician that dreams of being a storyteller one day. You're a filmmaker, you're one of us. Welcome to the club. Wow. And so we tested it. Tested off the charts and, uh, it's the most crowd-pleasing film that we've been a part of since. I can only imagine. So really grateful just to be on the journey.
Speaker 2:Andrew, I gotta ask you something because, um, the the movies that you're a part of, they have, I mean there, mean there's like A-plus cinema scores all over the place, but specifically, like with my family, a-plus cinema scores and that's kind of that's interesting, because it's not always the case with faith films. I mean, I've got a 21-year-old daughter, I've got an 18-year-old son, 12-year-old son, and they all end up loving them. We love them together as a family. So how do you choose? There are so many amazing stories out there, so how do you choose? This is one that we've got to tell because it resonates with everybody. How does that happen?
Speaker 4:You know, the first thing is like I love the audience because I'm a member of the audience. You know, the first thing is like I love the audience because I'm a member of the audience. Like you know, I have to make a film that moves my soul first. Where it's like, it's not about making a buck and it's not about just telling a story that's going to work. It's about like is this one that fundamentally I cannot get away from? Like it's something we have to tell and when something captures your heart, you're right. There's a lot that comes out every day. I probably get pitched seven to ten times a week. You know people having ideas and and some are good, but, like you know, the ones that really rise to the top are the ones are like oh, that's a story we know how to tell. We know how to tell true stories that are underdog stories, redemption, the human spirit, and kind of stories that are a rush of hope. But uh, you know the the ones in order and that's a high compliment saying that you have, uh, the age gaps within your family that they can all sit down and enjoy the movie, kind of.
Speaker 4:I think what we tried to do the best is study what pixar did back in its heyday with movies like toy story and wally and ones like that, and I, I like.
Speaker 4:The other day we went on a road trip to florida and I set up my computer in the back of the vehicle for my kids to watch a show while they're doing it.
Speaker 4:And my little seven-year-old picked a Pixar movie and and she and my other daughter were watching it. Well, my teenage son and his friend were in the back just cutting up and, you know, not paying attention, but I swear, within 10 minutes they're both leaning forward, watching the story, laughing along. It's like how does that happen that it can connect with adults, teenagers and kids? It's not because it's an animated movie, it's just because it's good storytelling. So, as Christians that are filmmakers, we've tried really hard to say how do you capture that approach and finding something that connects on every level, and I think it comes down to authenticity and it comes down to a relatable story that people really can connect with, and we work really hard to so. When that happens and somebody can say my 21 year old and my 10 year old and my wife all sat down and like this movie together, the highest compliment we can have.
Speaker 3:Andrew, you're speaking our language here, because we're all about people's stories, where we talk all the time about people sharing their hope stories, the difference Jesus has made in their life, because that's what builds the bridge, and I actually see that very much in this movie that through telling the story and you've done it with other movies as well it's not.
Speaker 3:I think there was a stretch where there were a lot of Christian media that was meant to hey, I want this. We're sitting there saying, hey, I want this to lead my friend to Christ, and what I see with yours is you're trying to correct me if I'm wrong here but I feel like you guys are trying to help build the bridge to the conversation where we're supposed to say, man, did you happen to see? Or inviting our friends to see it, and then having a conversation about faith, being able to tie it into our stories, to be able to say, hey, you know the things they struggled with. I've struggled with some of those in my life and, man, I found hope and his name is Jesus, and you guys are committed to doing it with excellence and that makes a difference, would you say. Is that accurate with your movies? That you guys are, you want those to be able to be a bridge builder.
Speaker 4:Absolutely. Uh, what you're saying is exactly how we I mean not too dissimilar to what striper did back in the day, but it's like the idea of how can we find something where we earn the right to be heard and having enough confidence in what we believe. And I think the thing that freed me up because when we started yeah, you're right, like most of the faith products that were out there, it wasn't that they were right or wrong, they were just different. They went right at like we got to fill in the whole message and it was a sermon on film and God used that and I'm grateful for the people that did that. But for us, that wasn't authentically who we were and we began to ask, like, what are we supposed to do? And I think we finally found our voice. I think true stories allowed us to do that in a way that you know. The Bible says they overcame the enemy by the blood of the lamb and the power of their testimony. And there's something about your testimony, what you've lived, that the outside world doesn't know how to debate, and they're like oh, it's your personal experience. You're not here debating dogma, you're here saying this is what Jesus did for me, and so that gave us a window in.
Speaker 4:Second thing was is like, who's our audience to reach? And we want to make something that if you're a Christian, you see your beliefs on film and you can celebrate who you are, not as the butt of the joke, but an authentic representation of what a Christian is. Somebody that's complicated, somebody that has conflict in their life, somebody that's gone through hard times and found hope and allowed us to do that. But the people that we're trying to reach are what we call benevolent skeptics. So benevolent skeptic isn't somebody hostile towards Christianity. They just don't know about it and they don't know they need it. And when you can put something that's relatable on film to them and just plant the seed, I don't have to fill in all the details, I don't have to have a sermon, I don't have to, I just have to plant the simple idea of redemption. And once you do that, you just step away and let that kind of take root and then, if I can jam a wedge between somebody's heart and their head, make them feel something, it will begin reverse engineering to challenging their thinking and saying I want to know more. And so when we did, I can only imagine and it released.
Speaker 4:There was one theater and somebody posted that something happened, that they were in a theater and they posted on social media. They said, uh, it was in Australia, I think of all places, but they, uh, they said that they this lady and her son went to go see the movie and, um, and they're watching it in the theater and when the credits roll, the lights come up and there's another woman sitting at the end of the row and she's crying and she turns to them and she said are you guys christians? And they said, yeah, we are, are you? And the woman was like I'm not. But whatever happened to dennis quaid in that movie, I want my life. How do I get that?
Speaker 4:oh, and they they walked over and they said let us tell you how they filled in the rest of the story. They preached the sermon and then the woman knelt down in the theater and gave her life to Christ. That's what it's about. It's not my job. My job is just to tell a story that creates a window of opportunity where the defenses are down. But when the defenses are down, that's where the church can step in and say let me tell you about the rest. And sorry if I'm getting on my soapbox, but this is my soapbox.
Speaker 2:No, this is so good.
Speaker 4:So, like you look at it, jesus did the same thing. He told master stories that he was a master storyteller and he told parables. Parables did not fill in all of the questions that just engage people emotionally in a way that they could be intrigued and pulled in. You know he talks about like on the road to Emmaus, like the people he was walking with after he was risen from the dead. They didn't know it was Jesus and when they realized who he was, he was taken away. They said didn't our hearts burn within us while he was talking? It just creates this hunger. But then, after Jesus would tell his parables like it didn't answer all the questions, it would ask the right questions. Then people would come back to him and say what did that mean? And he would tell them the rest of the story.
Speaker 3:We're just the first part. We're the parables, and that's what God's called us to do. Wow, I mean seriously chills, as you're talking about just that moment in the theater and just how God uses these things, because I'm sure that's one of countless ones that you guys get to hear from folks.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's what you said about people can't argue with your story. I mean, that is, you know people. They can argue about religion, they can argue about the Bible and there's a place for apologetics and all that, but there is the more God's people get that telling their story pre-Jesus, post-jesus this is the difference he makes when you get bad news from the doctor, when there are struggles financially and everything else, the more the kingdom is going to grow and you don't need a professional evangelist to be able to speak Jesus into somebody's life. So, do you hear? You actually started to answer the question I was going to ask you. That story about the audience member from. I Can Only Imagine that's incredible. Stories like that fairly regularly about how the film was a bridge to someone that that was in the theater may may not have expected to meet Jesus there, but he did.
Speaker 4:No, definitely, and I think, because people, people don't really seek out answers until they're really hurting. And then, when they're really hurting, where they look for answers is when somebody has a story that's able to say this is what helped me and uh, and I think that's what Jesus provides. And so the stories we look for are ones where you can't strip the Christianity out Like it's there, it's embedded, it's part of the DNA of the story, but it's in a way that's earned in somebody's experience. So, like when we did the movie Jesus revolution, um, you know, my brother it was my brother and Britt McCorkle were the filmmakers. I produced it with my partner, kevin and Josh.
Speaker 4:Um, and, uh, you know, when we stepped into that one and my brother wanted to tell that story, we were like man, this is risky, it's about the last great revival. It has Jesus in the title. Like this is this is going at the heart of the target. Like how do we make this still aimed at the benevolent skeptic? Like how do we make this still aimed at the benevolent skeptic? And the guy. As we kind of debated it, the answer was like well, this is the one moment in time where Christianity was both overt and it was also counterculture. It was both um, you know, it was both in its purest form and it was also rebellious. And I'm like that's I mean that's who Jesus was in his time Absolutely Is, is, is is um, he was both inviting and controversial. It was like it was all those things, he challenged the status quo. And so we're like let's tell it, through that idea of it being counterculture, that these weren't bad kids going, seeking drugs and and all these enlightenment things. These were kids that were searching for the right answer, but but in the wrong places. And when the bottom dropped out, they found this legitimate encounter with, with Jesus and the Holy spirit, and just tell it for what it was.
Speaker 4:So when we, when we got done with the movie, we showed it to my bosses at Lionsgate and and they're not people of particular faith, more agnostic kind of at best, but good people and they watched it and my boss at Lionsgate came to us and we thought we'd get really a lot of pushback and I'm not really scared of the terms they use, if I can kind of redefine it and they said, guys, this is the most inclusive thing that we've ever seen. And we said, well, what you call inclusive. As Christians, we call evangelism. It's the idea of. It is an invitation to broken and hurting and messy people to find hope, and we find that hope in Jesus. And so that's what it's about. It's an invitation. And they're like, as a company, I don't think we have a problem with that they're like don't change a thing. And so they let us put that movie out.
Speaker 4:And that movie led to you know it deals with, like the mass baptisms that happen at Pirate's Cove that still exist unchanged in California because it's part of a rock cliff. And it's part of a rock cliff and after the movie came out, like God just sparked something and they had two mass baptisms last year there during the summer and the first one had 4,200 people got baptized in one day. It was the most baptized baptisms in the history recorded, history of the United States. And then they had a second one that was about 3,900. So God just moved in ways as people saw it in the movie and they're like I want that and that's not us. That's God drawing people to himself. We just tried to provide a tool or a conduit to start the conversation.
Speaker 2:You know, I know Brad's got a question here, but I want to just quickly Jesus, revolution, revolution. I watched that movie and just saw misconception after misconception about the Christian faith, not in a pushy way, not in a told-you-so way, but just very naturally be addressed. Brad, I know you've got a question.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Andrew, as we wrap up our time and we knew a half hour would go fast, we didn't all go this fast. But, we want to pray with you before we wrap up. But one quick question if you can give me 60 seconds on Unsung Hero, what you hope people will walk away from this movie with? What do you hope they walk away with?
Speaker 4:You know, in a time where the family gets so beat down by society, I think the most rebellious thing we can do right now is lift up the power of the family.
Speaker 4:So we end with a quote from mother theresa said if you want to change the world, go home and love your family. And uh, that's really the heart of this film, that I think, especially as men, we get so focused on the calling god has on our life that, hey, like we gotta go do this, men and men and women. But sometimes, guys, we were a little bit tone deaf and we can get so obsessed with the calling that we really lose sight of the purpose. And the calling is not, is not? You know, that's not the mission, that's not the dream. The dream is your family. And that's where, you know, I think this, this woman, helen Smallbone, fought for her family, held them together when her husband was having a nervous breakdown, could not, you know, keep his head above water, and then, ultimately, he saw that his family wasn't in the way. They were the way. And I think that's the heart of this story and I think that's what preaches.
Speaker 3:We're going to wrap up with praying for you and your ministry. If you want to hear more from Andrew, I encourage you to check out. He's got a podcast the Storytellers right. You've got some great guests on there we're listening to some of that, so check out more from him, go see the movie and Doug is going to pray for you. You got 60 seconds for us to pray for you and your ministry, andrew.
Speaker 4:I got as much time as you guys need for us to pray for you in your ministry, andrew, I got as much time as you guys need.
Speaker 2:Awesome, heavenly Father. Thank you for this time today. It's awesome, lord, how, even when we haven't met before today, that when you're at the center of relationships, lord, that there's a brotherhood right off the bat. We praise you for that, lord. This movie is important in the sense that the kind of hope that only that there would be those conversations even in the movie theaters, like we heard about with I Can Only Imagine. We pray that friends would maybe bring their friends who might not know you to the movie, that they would share it on social media and even say, hey, this is why I felt like this movie really spoke to me. We just pray for your continued blessing on Andrew and all the great work he's doing making a difference in media in the kingdom. We love you and we thank you for this time together In Jesus' name amen.
Speaker 4:Amen, appreciate you guys.
Speaker 3:Thanks again for being with us, great conversation and really just encouraging to us. Thank you.
Speaker 4:Honored. I'd be honored to come back anytime, bud Awesome, can you tell?
Speaker 2:us real quick. Michael sweep, how did it? You said casting. We didn't get to it in the podcast, but but how did you cast him, or who was it?
Speaker 4:That that. That is the other for King and country brothers, Luke small bone. That is the other for King and Country Brothers, luke Smallbone. No way. When I got on set and he had the wig and I freaked out, I was like who's playing Michael Sweet? They're like that's Luke. I'm like, no, really, who's playing Michael Sweet? It's like it's Luke. Oh, my goodness, and the mascara and everything, and I was like oh my gosh, Wow.
Speaker 3:Wow, that is awesome. We'd love to talk with you more, but hey, we're praying for this and I believe this is going to break whatever budget you guys had. I think this is going to do amazing for you guys and I'm praying it will. Thanks, bud, appreciate you guys Well. Thanks once again to our special guest, Andrew Irwin, and we are praying for his team for this movie. Go check out the Storytellers podcast and make sure you go see the movie Unsung Hero. Tell a friend. So, from all of us, all of you, until next time, go Mets.