Sharing Jesus In Hard Places and Scary Situations

We've all been there. We know we should share the Gospel with someone we know but they seem totally not interested. Or they're kind of intimidating. Or, if we're being honest, we're just plain ol' scared of rejection or that we won't say the right thing or have all the answers.

Join Doug, Brad, and special guest, "On Eagles Wings" leader and veteran Sabin Miguel as they uncover the most important parts of sharing your faith in hard places and situations. You won't find many better ways to spend half an hour as the guys land incredibly valuable insights and practical steps to share the hope of Christ in the toughest of situations.

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Transcript

Summit Welcome And Camp Banter

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Hey everyone, welcome to Go Mat on the Road. That's right. We are sitting here at Warrior Leadership Summit, which is a youth conference for hundreds of Native American young people across North America. So if you hear some noise in the background, it's a good thing. It means things are happening. We've got a special guest with us today, Steven, who is going to share some of his story with you. You don't want to miss out on this one here on Go Mad.

SPEAKER_01 0:31

So here we are at Warrior Leadership Summit. Um, we're at camp, back to camp food. Yeah. Have you ever noticed that it doesn't matter what is being served in the camp food, they always will give you one roll.

SPEAKER_02 0:45

That's like this, but it doesn't breakfast, lunch, dinner. It's because if you can't do any of the other food, if you're like, I can't eat that. Uh, you know, I can eat a roll.

SPEAKER_01 0:54

Some carbs going. Now, I also wanted to mention, strangely enough, we didn't plan it this way. The three of us are in a baseball fantasy league together. Now we're gonna be silent here. Let's our audience figure out who is very much in first right now. I thought he agree not to talk about this. Let's do it this way.

SPEAKER_02 1:13

Steven and I are pretty happy that this is a free fantasy league and no money's on the left.

SPEAKER_01 1:18

Who is in first? Uh, rhymes with rug. Well, we're glad that y'all are joining us today. Um, we're talking about sharing the gospel in hard places, in hard situations,

Why Sharing Faith Feels Risky

SPEAKER_01 1:30

talking about on eagle's wings, as we talk with Steven today, who is a great leader for the kingdom. Um, you're gonna hear yourself in this story. Listen for yourself in this story because look, as believers, we know it's our responsibility to share the hope of Jesus with people. But we also know that we run into a lot of the same issues, fear, worries about how are how are people gonna respond. Um so as you listen to the story today, Saban's story today, listen for yourself because there are some really amazing ways that God is working in Saban's life and the lives of on Eagleswings leaders. And if you're in a tough place or in a tough situation, maybe your family doesn't know the Lord, um uh you're in a tough work spot, workplace, uh, and you're in a difficult situation, well, you're gonna hear about great ways to confront that uh as you hear Saban's story too.

SPEAKER_02 2:26

Yeah, and I'll say that uh it's pretty cool because Doug and I have had the uh just honor, the joy of getting to know Saban even better this past year because Saban, why don't you just tell us? Introduce people to you, um, name, tribe, where you're from, and even what you were up to this past year.

SPEAKER_00 2:42

Yeah, so uh my name is Saban. Um I'm on Kamala Atam. Uh that's the way how we pronounce it, or the other name people know of Kila. Uh I'm from Cotdale, Arizona on the Salt River PML Maricopa Indian community. And uh the patch here, I just recently graduated, in mate, from the Leadership Center. Uh it's a life-changing experience, I would say, for anyone who ever thought of what to do next in life, whether it be graduating from high school, uh, you know, graduating from college or just doing whatever, you know, know what's going on. Uh, that was a really good life-changing experience.

SPEAKER_02 3:14

Oh, it's awesome. I I uh we've loved being able to get to know Save more this past year because when you get to know him, you get to know that yes, he is a great guy with a great story, but you're a pretty funny guy, too. I mean, you keep people cracking up a lot, yeah. Uh which I love because joy the Lord. You you know that we can have fun as followers of Christ, as ambassadors of Christ, but you also know that there's a time where you gotta lock in and be serious about stuff, especially the gospel. As people are watching this, we're not sitting around this table as people are seeing this and hearing this. We are out, especially Saban is out on a reservation basketball court somewhere that uh he is setting up and he is telling people about Jesus. Now, before we get to what that's all about, tell us a little bit about how you first met

Saban Story From Pain To Hope

SPEAKER_02 4:07

Jesus. What's your hope story? I mean, I've heard it, but people need to hear this.

SPEAKER_00 4:11

Yeah, so uh it all started like before I was born, you know. Uh my dad left. He thought it would be better for me not to, I wouldn't say get like knowing who he was, it would just be like his life now and what he was doing at that time. So he left before I was born. Oh, he asked my mom when that I kept his last name. So that's why my last name, Miguel, and different from my other family. Of when I was born, another umbilical cord wrapped around my neck, it crushed my airway in a sense, and my airway is like that tiny, tinier than a penny. So uh growing up, it was hard to breathe. I still had trouble breathing sometimes when I sleep. So when I sleep, I tend to stop breathing for a couple seconds. But uh I developed a list because I learned how to talk through my nose and breathe out my mouth. And so growing up, it was really hard. I was bullied constantly at school for it. You know, people who I thought were my friends uh ended up joining in on the bullying with me. Uh I would meet up most of the time, even on the bus on the ride home. Uh uh, my mom, she ended up getting married again to our stepfather. You know, there wasn't good times with him, and there wasn't the bad times. Uh uh going back to my my breathing, um, they looked in my airway. I would go to feature therapy. I would go to feature therapy. They would teach me like all these exercises to do. And so one of the exercises I remember to slow down when I peek because how me psychologically, how I think it in that I gotta get everything out before I run out of breath. And so I tend to feed up my talking and then I run out of breath. But none of that would work until one day my feet therapist decided to look into my throat, and that's when the whole airway thing wouldn't be covered. Uh, she called my mom in, and I don't really remember that day. I just remember I was playing with something off to the side, and I just remember my mom breaking down crying because they had no idea. Um, one dinner I remember we were eating steak, and steak was always hard for me to eat. Any type of meat was always hard for me to eat. Uh and to because I wouldn't eat a lot, you know, I was really small, had a really, really fragile body, I guess you could say. And um, even when I was like 10 and uh I would be like smaller than everyone, everyone shot up in size, I was smaller than everyone in our grade. People used to joke that if a gut the wind came, it would just pick me up and take me. But that that's how small I was. And so um one day, going back to the story, one day we're eating meat, I think it was snake one day, and I only took a couple bites and I was finished. And um my mom uh they got mad at me because I was wasting food and basically wasting food because I wanted to eat it all. But it was because I would choke on the meat and other types of food is whenever I would eat, and so I would be afraid to eat. And they sent me home. Uh they're not home, I was already home. They sent me to bed because yeah, I wouldn't eat, and then they thought I was wasting food. And that's what my mom remembers, and that's why she went breaking down crying because they had no idea, they had no clue. Uh, fact forward, I get tons of surgery, and I got my tonsils removed and um with my stepdad, he he would nice, he was nice on Sundays, and then other times there were bad memories, of course. Um but I remember one day I'm outside with him, my sister, and our dogs we've had. They were German Shepherds, so they were big boys. But um, I remember one day uh I told him I'm gonna go inside and get a snack. And I was watching my little sister at the time too, because she was a baby. And I told him I'm going inside and getting a snack, and he said, okay. And I go inside to get a snack, and I don't know where I hear the door slam open, and I just hear loud footsteps, and he grabbed me by my neck and he dragged me outside. Um I was trying to keep up with him too, but I was too slow and like my feet dragged, and I was thrown down the stairs. Um because during that time I went to go get a snack. One of the dogs knocked over my little sister. And fast forward, uh, my mom and stepdad get divorced. And going back to, I have three three older siblings, including my little sister, but I'm the youngest out of the during the time I was the youngest, I was uh I was considered the baby. Uh I don't know. Then only man, you know how that's like saving the best for last. No, all right, there we go. I always say my mom knew she got the right one, so she popped. But uh please don't say that. We'll talk about this. But um, you know, my siblings weren't always nice to me. We had our oldest one. Uh I kind of I look up to him as my my savior then. Well, I won't say that. We'll come forward back to that. But uh my two older siblings would bully me, he would be the one to stop them, get after them. And so one one day my older brother left when he turned 18, and that kind of left me at the mercy to my two older siblings. So um, and always heard my mom, she was a single mom, of course, before she found my stepdad, you know. Um she would go work early in the morning and then come back late at night and would have the time to take care of it too, but too, she would be uh tired, of course, from coming home and working long days. But um, yeah, that left me to the mercy of my older brother and sister when she was at work. And um my older, the older brother too, he both the brothers move out, and uh like me and my older sister there. So um she ends up leaving my older sister ends up leaving two one day, so it's just me, my stepdad, my sister, and me. Um later on in the future, my mom and my stepdad divorced, and my mom happened to run into the pastor at uh the grocery store who ended up marrying my mom and stepdad. And he asked her how she was doing, they caught up a bit, and she told him what had happened, and he invited her to church. And so she goes to church, comes back the next week. I'm put uh brought along because I was a teenager at the time, or not a teenager, pre-teen, they call her. Um pre-teen at the time. I was mad, but at the same but now I'm thankful for it. That the verse, first verse she ever heard was After Me and my house, we will serve the Lord. So she brought me with her, and uh been going there for a year. Uh the next year, I during that time I hear about this man named Jesus. Um he loved me. He I I heard about the stuff he went through with the whole being beaten, being made fun of, and not being able to fit in. Wow. And so I and I figured out that he died for us, of course. And so that way we could have a better life. And just seeing the love and the happiness to my mom, like I wanted to feel that too. And so at a young age, uh, I accepted the Lord into my heart. In my heart, in my heart, and that relationship. I began that relationship, and after that, everything then looking up, of course. Um my brother and sister, they stopped treating me bad, you know. If you see us now, we're like the best of friends. Um and all my brothers, even my older brother too, he's he came back into our life, and uh they've all accepted the Lord too. They all began that relationship. And just back then, compared to now, like it was like the best thing ever, you know, we're all one big happy family now.

On Eagles Wings As Family Mission

SPEAKER_02 12:22

Um You saw in Jesus someone that you related to. Yes. And the reason you got to see that is because someone told you about who Jesus really was. And all of a sudden, because someone talked about him, there you are saying, that's I I get that. That's the kind of guy that I've I've been through that.

SPEAKER_01 12:41

And this is on Eagle's wings. I mean, this this is what's so I I mean, as I hear that, I'm thinking of I mean, on Eagle's Wings, officially, Native young people going to Native American communities across the country into Canada, sharing the hope they have with other Native Americans. I've been going for 30-something years, have seen so many come to Jesus through it. Um, and I'm just hearing over and over as I'm hearing your story, all of the hope stories that have been brought by Native American young people saying the reason I know I know Jesus is because I could relate to him. I've heard, I've I I how many times have we heard one of y'all go uh sharing your hope story and saying, I had heard he was a white man's God, I had heard all of these things, but when I when I actually investigated for myself, I found uh Jesus that a God that that came here, came to this earth as a human so he could relate to me. What so that's that's what on Eagle's Wings is officially, but for you, what is on Eagle's Wings? What's your experience been like? Um, how would you describe it to somebody that that asks you about it?

SPEAKER_00 13:58

I would say it's like one big family. Like that's what it truly became like everyone, every year. You know, uh they've become closer to me than some of my even my own family. Um it is a life-changing experience. You know, ever since joining the team, I've been doing things I thought I never would have doing growing up. Uh, of course, traveling to different reservations, friending the love and hope that we found in Jesus. You know. Uh I've been so many places.

SPEAKER_02 14:30

One of our um cooks once said, she said, when you're with on eagle's wings, it's like you're chasing God's glory. You're you're what's the next thing God's gonna do? Um, and I love what you said about this one family that is a big family because it's from tribes across the country. The OEW team is 30 to 40 young people usually that have uh applied for the team, they've gotten pastors' references, all this and they come together from all over the place. They won't you guys don't know each other when you start, and then all of a sudden the common bond of you found this Jesus because someone told you about him. And that's what I love about the team is you're standing on basketball courts in places you've never been in front of people who are some sometimes some of the toughest people from that community. But you guys are dauntless, you're courageous, you are bold, and I've seen so many who have learned from you guys that wait, if they can do this, if they can share Jesus in these hard situations, shouldn't I be doing more of that?

Practical Courage Prayer And Practice

SPEAKER_01 15:37

We've got folks who are listening to the podcast right now who are going, what is an on-eagle wing? Um uh and some folks who know what it is, but everyone listening has had that experience of I'm in a tough spot right now. I know this person needs Jesus. I I I'm kind of scared they have no interest in hearing. And if you're I we know you guys have faced some tough crowds. You're sharing your hope story, you're not exactly, people aren't exactly looking at you going, Oh, wow, tell me more, you know. But so when for but everybody has been there in a tough spot. You must have felt fear, you must have felt um concern about what's the response gonna be. So how do you deal with that? I mean, what what do you do? Because you guys don't just share your hope story in front of, which is awesome enough, in front of hundreds of people sometimes, but after that, you're going one-on-one, each of you, sometimes multiple times in the night, talking with people, sharing your hope story with one person individually. So for folks who are listening who face some of the same concerns, fear, what would you tell them? What do you how do you deal with it?

SPEAKER_00 16:48

Um prayer, prayer, of course. Obviously, top of the list. Um before every reservation, we always pray the three open prayer: the open the door, open our hearts, and open my mouth. Um, starting off with that, of course, you know, they're in different versions too. Talk about being courageous, being fearless. Yeah. The one that I always remember in Joshua 1.9. Be strong, be courageous, and don't be afraid and don't be discouraged, for the Lord, your God is on his side. So wherever you go, Lord.

SPEAKER_02 17:17

He's so if you're watching on video, Saban is verser sizing, as my dad calls it, because he will teach the team these different verses every summer uh as we're traveling with the team. And this was one last year or year before, where be a strong and courageous. So anyway, I love that you just that I do the same thing. I can never remember those acting out.

SPEAKER_00 17:37

That's pretty awesome. You can remember them. I can never remember those. Uh, but yeah, prayer, hearing, always hearing that the land that we're gonna be on and prayed for, and that we have people all over praying for us. You know, uh I've always been afraid going to new different places and especially different reservations where I don't know like I only know my reservation, but going to these different places, you can see the similarities of back at home and finding finding some like little place you're familiar with. And of course, like I said, prayer. You always hear about it. So the ground we're on, where we're at, prayed for, knowing you have you're not alone there. You have, of course, you have the whole team there too, and people you can lean back on too that you know, like if you were to fall, they would catch you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:30

I think that was Charles Spurgeon who said um said prayer isn't, or might have been Oswald Chambers who said prayer isn't part of the work or even preparing for the work, prayer is the work. It's crazy to go into a difficult situation sharing about the Lord without having gotten that ground ready first. It's so interesting that you say, um, you know, that scripture that says uh that the Lord goes ahead of us. Um, you know, you guys find that when you go to a community, he's already been there, he's already prepared the ground, and you guys are are there to be the harvesters.

SPEAKER_02 19:06

But I think what else we see with the team, you you mentioned some as far as the praying that's reopened prayer and everything, is when we're ready, when we've known what to say, when we've thought about the thought that through as far as and yeah, yeah, we we equip the team with kind of a a simple approach and everything. But I think that's an important point, Brad.

SPEAKER_01 19:29

The that that the they you guys have before you go into the situation, you have even practiced with each other, going, This is the scripture. If I really want to lead someone to the Lord, this is the scripture. This is I need to at least know the the the and communicate the basics here. So you yes, you pray, but you guys do a great job, Brad you lead a boot camp. Maybe if you're listening, you need your own kind of personal boot camp going into the word. These are the scriptures that do a shameless plug. Do a shameless plug.

SPEAKER_02 20:03

If you are one, a lot of what we teach the team is found on your hope story from our hope story.com. Yes, hopefully.com. Well, you can see a lot of what we go through is that because it's about getting to Jesus through your story. And anyone can do that. But you say that one more time. Your hope story.com and anyone can do it.

SPEAKER_01 20:26

And getting your getting oh, it's great. Uh getting getting to the hope of Jesus through your story, because everybody has a story.

SPEAKER_02 20:34

Right. And so the when you're going into a community, you're finding common ground. I I can't tell you how many times team members come back from events, and it you you kind of got to this where you they come back and they say, I met me out there. Yeah. There's a lot of people like us out there that are waiting for someone to connect with them, help them to feel seen, and all of a sudden that opens doors and tear it tears down walls because you guys are being real. You're sharing your story, you're asking them their story, and you're getting to Jesus' story. Yeah. And when they do that, you're ready. It's not like, oh, what do I say now? Oh no, I don't know what it's the gospel's the gospel. Yeah, it you can dive on in and share that. So I appreciate that about this team that it's always about that. I'm ready, I'm prayed up, and I'm gonna go out there, no matter what the result is, I'm gonna faithfully keep after it.

SPEAKER_00 21:32

And going back to what he said about finding me, uh that's what Ron always tells us before the trip is there's gonna be seven things to be found, and that's the one that always picks out to me is you're gonna find a you. And you're gonna find a you. Yeah, that's so good.

SPEAKER_01 21:47

That's like, you know, what one of the things that that um that we've heard dad say so many times is is that uh it sometimes the best gospel sharers are. People who remember what it's like before they had Jesus, their BC time. The person you're scared of sharing a gospel with, and maybe this is how you guys get some of your courage, if I'm hearing you right, is that I recognize this is this was just me before Jesus. And I may not have had the best look on my face. I may have seemed disinterested, but deep down, I know I needed something. Um I love that, I love that I met me. Um can you tell us um you've shared your hope story. Yeah. Um what what has been important to you as you've shared or what's going through your mind? How have you prepared yourself when when it's time to go and be in front of people and share your hope?

SPEAKER_00 22:54

I think going through my mind, it's to remember that I am Christ's Christ's ambassador. And to hope that when people see me, they see Jesus in me and working through me. And I remember one time during one of the reservations after I got done sharing my story, someone came up to me and they said, uh going through all that stuff you did growing up, and to see you now, and you just got a big old smile on your face, and you know, that it's sorry if I get emotional, but um boys. You know, isn't crazy seeing how I grew up in a different situation. And of course, there are people who went through that too. And now when they see me, they just see one person who's always smiling, and of course spending a year with you guys too. That's one thing you guys already bring up, and that I'm always smiling no matter what the situation. And just to know me now, that I wish I had someone like me now back then when I'm going through that.

SPEAKER_01 24:04

So, so you that if you're listening, if you're listening, you can be that if I'm getting my pronouns right, the you can be the me that um that you remember being. Um that's such a huge point, you remembering your Christ's ambassador, because as we're as we're praying, I'm hearing we're praying, we're being prepared to know what we're going to say when we share the gospel. Use your story because everyone's got a story. Um and and I'm hearing, remember your Christ's ambassador, that the people you're sharing the gospel with, it's usually a friend, it's usually a co-worker, it's not usually a stranger, but remembering your Christ's ambassador that they're watching you and they're recognizing, that's why they want to know who this Jesus guy is, because he changed Saban. My my wife, the same thing. Just briefly to remember, I'm sure you have run into this. The people in her family, she's Navajo, the people in her family, she was the most positive, would never want to hear about Jesus. And maybe they had denied her before. Two of them, that I'm thinking of specifically, they were family members. When it was time and they were facing some of the worst things in their life, they came to her and said, Tell me about this Jesus, because you're the only one in our family that's always smiling, that's always asking and encouraging. And if you know Savan, that's saving.

SPEAKER_02 25:38

They see Christ in you, the hope of glory. Everything. What I would encourage people with as we get close to wrapping up here is the um the way God uses this team is because you're obedient, you've stepped out in faith, out of your comfort zone. You've said, I care too much about what happens to that person to not tell them about Jesus. Yeah, I have to tell them because I know someone told me, and I'm not gonna leave others behind.

Comfort Versus Obedience And Motivation

SPEAKER_02 26:10

And I think that one of our OEW team members just recently mentioned to me that she said the biggest challenge for me was I was tempted, not so much even by some of the worst things from her past or whatever, it was by comfort. She said, Comfort is what all of a sudden I was settled in at home. I'm just like, Yeah, this I I can still make a difference here. I can be okay here and everything, and still be close to Jesus. And she realized, no, I've got to keep going out. And I see that in Saban because Sabin has gone from us meeting him at Warrior Leadership Summit, being a part of the Un Eagles Wings team, going to the leadership center graduating, and now he's just about a month away, month and a half from being this year's leadership center male RA. Wow. That's obedience and faith and confidence and courage.

SPEAKER_01 27:04

Saban, so someone's listening, and Brad, that's a great that's a great point, bringing up comfort. That might be the top reason people don't share their faith. It's a lot easier to sit at home, it's a lot easier to go to church and sing our Christian song. Let the sister do it even. Let the pastor do it. Um, it of course that's not the plan Jesus gave the disciples. It was, it was, if you're a follower of me, your job is to go and share the gospel. Um but but you could choose some of these places we go to, it's hot, it's humid. Yeah. Sometimes where you're where you're staying isn't very comfortable. You guys sometimes are, I mean, we look for the best place you can possibly stay, but sometimes in the middle of these places, you're you're sleeping on a church floor. Um so you know, people are in their summer, people have their own decisions to make about um about comfort. I can sit home in my air conditioning, I can watch Netflix, I can let the pastor do it. Here's my my bottom line question for you. At the end of the day, what motivates you? What motivates you to go and choose to be on this team where it can be hard, where there are challenges, amazing things happening, but people listening who are choosing comfort right now, and they're starting to realize it as we're listening, what motivates you to go and jump into the fray like that?

SPEAKER_00 28:31

There's a lot of things that can that do motivate me. Um I can't put I can't put the front into word, but I think knowing that my name's already written in the lamb, and I know that I'm gonna be uh with Jesus one day in heaven for eternity, and not wanting to see people be left behind and experiencing that hope that we found. And I always like the story of how your daddy is in the Titanic. You know, there are people on the boats who are gonna be saved, and there are the ones who are uh wanting to be helped that are in the water, and I think just knowing that the world needs needs to be saved, like yeah, needs to be saved, and just experiencing that love and hope that I've I've experienced and that I've come to know like you want everyone else to be happy and knowing um knowing where they're gonna be spending eternity. And I love it, man.

SPEAKER_01 29:45

That is what an what an awesome you did just put it into words, man. Um thank you for giving that what an incredible motivation.

Final Challenge Pray And Reach Out

SPEAKER_02 29:52

I think that I if you have listened to this. I'm getting choked off episode. I am. Listen to this episode, you've heard a roadmap to being able to share Jesus with others. And I so thank you, Saban, for taking the time. For I know you've been running around this week helping out at Warrior Leadership Summit. I'm glad we got to take this time to hear your story and the difference you're making, even through the Ministry of On Eagles Wings, but well beyond that as well. And I just tell people pray for these Warriors of On Eagles Wings, even the rest of this month. When you hear this, press pause. Keep listening then, but press pause and pray for the Warriors of On Eagles Wings team, and then go find someone to talk to. And go to on eagleswings.com, right? Can we get Hutchcraft? Yeah, go to Hutchcraft. Look for On Eagles Wings. We're right there. You'll find out more about Sabin and all these Warriors that's who you get to work with. So that's right. So, everyone, thank you for tuning in.

SPEAKER_01 30:47

We gotta invite Saban on this one.

SPEAKER_02 30:49

Oh, we do. We do you're joining us.

SPEAKER_01 30:51

Are you ready for the